Well, we can speak now to Dr. Victor
Gao, who is the vice president of the
Center for China and Globalization, who
joins us from Beijing. Dr. Ga, always a
pleasure talking to you. Um, we’ve never
talked about the state of relations
between China and Iran before. So, why
don’t we make that the starting point?
Um, how would you describe uh the state
of ties between Beijing and Thran?
Thank you very much for having me. China
highly respects Iran as a sovereign
nation with territorial integrity and
the two countries engage with each other
on equal terms and China does not
recognize the uh extr territoriality of
any other countries uh one-sided and
self-imposed sanctions against another
country or uh against China and
therefore when China deals with Iran we
deal with Iran in all spheres
of relations including energy
cooperation and I don’t think uh this is
a problem and if a third country cries
foul it’s the problem is really with
itself with its attempted extr
territorial reality of its uh
unilaterally imposed sanctions and I
think uh once this uh Israel initiated
war against Iran started the Chinese
government’s position is very clear
Israel is in violation of a self imposed
war against a member of the United
Nations against its sovereignty and
territorial integrity and China really
deplores Israel’s uh military attack on
nuclear facilities inside uh Iran and
considered it as a very serious offense
against world peace and security. Okay.
I mean, if just to give you the the
Israeli line on what you just said, what
we’re told by Israeli officials
repeatedly on this channel is that Iran
is very close to uh being able to build
a nuclear weapon. It might already be
able to do so, and they’re constantly
calling for the destruction of Israel.
So, they say what they’re doing is
preemptive self-defense. What do you
make of that argument?
It is of high hypocrisy for a country
like Israel which violated international
convention in possessing nuclear weapon
to start with and now it’s accusing
another country Iran for attempting to
acquire nuclear weapons. I don’t think
there are any higher level of double
standard and hypocrisy for Israel to
accuse another country of trying to
possess nuclear weapons. I think the
Middle East will be much better off if
Israel dis arms itself with nuclear
weapons and all other country will uh
want to possess nuclear weapons. That
will probably create a better level
playground for all the countries
involved in the Middle East. For Israel
to possess nuclear weapons and to
constantly threaten other countries with
nuclear attack is really a very serious
problem. And I think international
community really need to join together
to put an end to such blatant violation
of peace and security not only in the
Middle East but in the world at large.
We’ve heard from uh the president of
China, President Xiinping, saying on
Tuesday that China is quote deeply
worried about Israel’s military
operation against Iran.
Where do you think you you and the
president of China see things heading
to? Why? Why the worry? How dangerous
could the situation be?
Well, as a general point, China is
already always worried if a war breaks
out. And this time, this war is a
complete surprise attack launched by
Israel against a sovereign and
independent country like Iran. And the
fact that this surprise attack took
place when the United States and Iran
are still engaged in discussions about
how to end this nuclear problem is
particularly surprising. It’s in my best
judgment is like the Japanese surprise
attack on Pearl Harbor uh in the Second
World War. And I think Israel has also
committed all the crimes in uh massively
killing the government officials,
military officials of Iran. And no
country should tolerate any other
country like Israel to commit such
massive amount of assassinations before
a formal declaration of war against uh
Iran for example. So I think the Chinese
president is legitimately worried about
the scale of the attack, the potential
loss of life as well as the potential
escalation of this situation because you
never know how this situation may evolve
eventually, whether it will get out of
control, whether it will uh escalate
from conventional war to nuclear war for
example, or whether, ironically, it will
force Iran to clearly develop a nuclear
weapon and what will be the consequence
for Israel and Iran to both have nuclear
weapons? Do they really want to use
nuclear weapons against each other? What
will be the consequence for peace and
security in the Middle East and in the
world at large? Therefore, it is time to
call on Prime Minister Netanyahu. Stop
all the craziness. He probably wants to
save his political skin rather than
really serving the fundamental interest
of the people in Israel to launch such
unilateral self-imposed
surprise attack on a big country, a
great country like Iran.
Dr. Gao, on Tuesday, uh, China accused
the US President Trump of pouring oil on
the conflict there between Iran and
Israel. Um, why and how does Beijing
Beijing see uh the United States making
things worse with regards to this
situation?
Well, I think evidence points out to a
joint operation by the United States and
Israel against uh the country of Iran.
They probably have a division of work.
The United States was not very much
involved on the surface of the situation
but no one should be surprised if the
United States highly coordinates its
information gathering etc uh with uh
Israel and the fact that Israel has kept
saying that the United States is
involved from the very beginning of the
war etc illustrates the level of
cooperation and collaboration between
the United States and Israel against
Iran and the United States still keep
saying that they are not involved, but
then they need to come up with a proof
that they are not involved. And not
being involved is not sufficient. And
the United States really need to pull
all their levers to force Israel to stop
this war against Iran and also to stop
Israel from misusing the United States,
creating all the misinformation about
that the United States and Israel are
working together to for example destroy
uh Iran or to create a regime change in
Iran etc. So I think it is time for the
United States. My personal concern is
that if the United States really gets
bogged down in this war against Iran, no
one knows what will happen to the United
States in the coming years or coming
decades. Well, that could be beneficial
for China, couldn’t it? Because if the
United States spends uh large sums of
money u considerable amount of time uh
and attention on uh on on affairs in the
Middle East that leaves China to do what
it wants to do in a in a in a more let’s
say uh uh unrestrained way.
Allow me to emphasize one point. China
always benefits by protecting peace and
stability anywhere in the world. And
China will feel very much at a loss if
peace and stability and prosperity
anywhere in the world will be damaged by
especially unilaterally imposed war of
one country against the other country.
Therefore, such benefit if any that
China will enjoy is not for China’s own
benefit. It is for peace and stability
and the well-being of mankind. It is
time to stop Israel in this war against
Iran and to prevent the United States
from really joining this war together
with Israel which may escalate the
situation and create un
uh prepared consequences for mankind as
a whole.
Um, you mentioned regime change in your
earlier response and I want to pick up
on that because we heard from President
Trump uh on social media saying, quote,
“We know exactly where the so-called
Supreme Leader is hiding. He’s an easy
target, but he is safe there. We’re not
going to take him out, at least not for
now.” How would China react if the
United States did or if Israel did kill
the Supreme Leader?
This is exactly the confusion that
President Trump is creating deliberately
or unintentionally.
I don’t think assassination of a head of
state or head of government or political
leaders or military leaders of another
country is the right thing to do in the
world of today. I think countries need
to have the minimum decency and the
protocol in dealing with another
country. Assassination is the bad thing
and assassination may serve as a
boomerang eventually may come back to
hurt yourself and haunt you. are
therefore engaging in assassination
especially against head of state or
leader of another religious faith for
example or against the major political
and military leaders of another
sovereign country is the wrong thing to
do especially at a time when Israel has
self-imposed this undeclared war in a
surprise attack against Iran this is the
worst time for the head of the state of
the United States to imply that
assassination may be involved in killing
the leader of Iran.
You mentioned in your first answer uh
well you painted a picture of of a of a
very cordial set of relations, cordial
ties between Beijing and Thran. Let me
put the scenario to you. If Iran goes
the same way as for example Syria and
the uh the assassination that you
mentioned or or or otherwise brings
about a change of management shall we
say in in Iran I mean that would be a
loss for China wouldn’t it because you’d
have lost an ally a key ally in this
region because if a pro-western
government replaces the government
that’s there already that would be a
loss for China wouldn’t it?
No I don’t think so. I think China has
always the long perspective and
historical perspective to look at any
contemporary events like what had
happened in Syria and what is happening
in Iran. We are not confused by the
events on a day-to-day basis. We look at
the situation in 10 years in 100 years
sometimes 500 years if not even longer.
Therefore, in the historical
perspective, if you really look at the
situation in the longhaul perspective,
war is bad. For Israel to impose an
undeclared war on Iran is an aggression.
And whatever Iran is doing is justified
because they are defending their own
sovereignty and territorial integrity.
They are fighting back against
aggressors. And if the United States
wants to join Israel to become an
aggressor against Iran, well, history
will eventually have its own verdict.
Therefore, I think all of us need to
work on with Israel to stop the war as
quickly as possible and come up with
peaceful ways to negotiate with Iran.
And I personally will completely support
the ending of whatever nuclear weapon
program, if any, by Iran. And I do hope
Israel will also dispossess nuclear
weapons and Middle East will become a
nuclear-free zone that will be in the
best interest of all the countries in
that particular part of the world. China
will do its best to promote the real
justified
result for any such tension or conflict
of war and China will do its best to
prevent the war from escalating or from
spreading out impacting on more
countries and hurting more people in
that part of the world.
Um, the United States and some of its
allies view China as being part of what
it now calls Krink, which is this new
acronym which is being bandied around
quite a bit by foreign policy uh uh
spokes u talking heads on television
channels all over the world. Crink
meaning China, Russia, Iran, and North
Korea. I don’t know what you think of
that uh acronym uh if you’ve heard it
used much before, but let me just ask
you this. were the United States to
intervene and join forces with Israel uh
in a in a in a very overt way and join
that conflict. Do you see a day that
China or Russia or other actors could
perhaps join in support of Iran?
Well, imposing a war on a great country
like Iran with 1.66 66 million square
kilometers and with up to more than 90
million people and a country which has
tremendous amount of uh spiritual
leadership among the Shia people
throughout the world is really poking
for more disaster if it is not stopped
right away and if other countries want
to join the fight on the side of Israel
I will urge them to stop that right way.
And if for example other countries want
to join the fight against Iran, you
never want to exclude the possibility
that other major countries want to fight
together with Iran because the war
imposed on Iran is the unjustified war.
It’s a war of aggression. It’s
undeclared war. It’s a surprise attack.
And any people, any country in any
country under such surprise attack, an
attack of aggression has full legal
justification to fight back. Therefore,
stopping the war right now is the best
way. Allowing it to escalate and to get
out of control will most likely hurt the
fundamental interests of the people in
Israel as well as in Iran and in many
other countries in that particular part
of the world. And I think China is doing
the right thing. Urging on Israel to
stop the war, urging um uh Iran not to
escalate, for example, try to wrap up
the situation so that all parties
involved can talk about peace rather
than war and war and war. China does not
like war of any kind and China does not
want to see any country launching a war
of war of aggression against another
country. And just lastly, that acronym
Krink uh viewed as being a group of uh
hostile or adversarial nations by
Washington and some of its allies. What
do you make of it? What do you make of
the acronym?
First of all, whatever acronyms you come
up with, it cannot change the fact that
China today is the major force defending
peace and stability and development in
the world. And the fact that China is
the largest trade nation with more than
140 countries in the world speaks
eloquently about what China really cares
about that is promoting peace defending
free trade for example. If anyone wants
to confuse China with a force against
the peace then he or she is either out
of their mind or completely falsifying
the situation against China. Now I would
urge the United States. Don’t mess
around with China. Don’t view China as
an enemy. China is not an enemy of the
United States. China has tremendous
amount of goodwill for the American
people. And China and the United States
like President Trump said, if they work
together, they can work out miracles and
no problem in the world cannot be
overcome
and there will be better peace and
stability and better future for mankind
as a whole. If anyone bets that China
and the United States will have a war
against each other, let me tell you,
they are wrong. I always promote the
inevitability of peace between China and
the United States. War is not and should
not be viewed as an option between China
and the United States. And China and the
United States have added the
responsibility to promote peace and to
bring this war, for example, initiated
by Israel against Iran to a stop. as
quickly as possible for the benefit of
mankind. No one should allow Prime
Minister Netanyahu
try to saving his own political scheme
from justice at home and justice in H by
launching this war of aggression against
Iran. He will not be able to escape from
the reach of law either both inside
Israel as well as in the H. Okay. Okay.
Well, on that note, we wrap up. Thank
you very much indeed. Always a pleasure
talking to you. Thank you so much, Dr.
Victor Gao. Thank you very much for
having me. Thank you.
发表回复